20250212 - Twin Sister Interview - How Self-Sabotage Is Impacting Your MS (And How To Stop) With Samantha Hawley
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[00:00:00] Intro To The Episode, intro to twin sister, Samantha
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Gretchen: Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in today. I have a very special guest, my twin sister, Samantha Hawley, and we're going to dive into everything about self sabotage and how that shows up in our daily lives and how to overcome it.
Gretchen: And if you're listening to the podcast, You might not know this, but we are actually together in person. She's sitting right beside me. So if you're watching this on YouTube, then you can see us, and you can make your own assessments and judgments if we look like twins or not.
[00:00:35]
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Gretchen: And we've also been told from many people, including our parents, that we sound very similar, if not identical. So if you are listening to just the podcast, I'm curious if it'll be hard for you to know who, who is speaking.
Gretchen: Samantha, thank you so much for joining us today.
Samantha: Thank you for having me on. I'm so excited.
[00:01:01] [00:01:01] Samantha Intro + How She Helps People
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Gretchen: Well, before we dive into all of my questions, and I have a ton for those that don't know who you are, and maybe this is the first time they're hearing of you, can you just share a bit about who you are and what you do, how you help people?
Gretchen: Yeah. So in a nutshell, I help women journal through tough transitions so that they can feel safe. Hopeful and validated and really create the steps to feel how they want to feel. And that stems from me going through that process. I used to journal and I almost say journal in air quotes, because what that used to look like was me just writing down my to do list for the day or, you know, positive affirmations, like I am statements.
Gretchen: And it made me feel good doing that. Temporarily, like for an hour or so, but right after having Griffin, my son, who is now four, but he was a COVID baby, I had him in October of 2020, and it was December 17th of 2020 that I remember just feeling so overwhelmed. In all areas of my life. And I remember just separating myself from my husband at the time and journaling, I sat down, I wrote Vent Sesh on the top of the page.
Gretchen: And I also remember writing, cause I looked once I wrote, I feel like I'm dropping all of the balls. And I wrote three pages worth of how I was just feeling as a mom, as a wife, as a business owner. And by the end, I didn't have any solutions. I just felt validated. And I, it was the first time that I. Put aside the positivity hat that I always felt like I wore and I had honored how I actually felt and what I actually wanted and that was the very start of how I got to where I am today.
Gretchen: And so I love helping women honor the hard stuff and work through the hard stuff instead of either not feeling it at all and pretending like it's not there or getting stuck in it. Yeah, and I will just say it's been really cool being an on looker because I remember that day in December 2020 and you telling me that you vented in your journal and just to see where you are now is very cool.
Gretchen: So we're going to go into more about self sabotage. And if you stick around at the end, we actually had a few of my missing link members. And. Followers from my social media channels submit questions about being twins. And so once we're done talking about self sabotage, we're going to answer some, some Q and A's, so hang around until the end.
Gretchen: But let's just dive in.
[00:03:34] What is self-sabotage?
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Gretchen: So can you first start off super basic? What is self sabotage? I remember years and years ago, gosh, probably seven years ago. Seven, eight, nine years ago, maybe even us having a conversation and you telling me that I was self sabotaging and I don't remember the specific scenario about what made you think that that was true, but I remember thinking like, that is absolutely not true.
Gretchen: Like that's just not what's happening, but it was. And so can you just share with us, what is self sabotage? What is it? What do we need to know about it?
Samantha: Yeah, I am so curious what that situation was. I used to think that sabotage only came into play when I was trying to reach a goal. Whatever that goal might be.
Samantha: And If I got in my own way, it was because of self sabotage for one reason or another. And then I learned that sabotage is the root of all stress. So if you think about When you're stressed in your life throughout your day, we can be stressed. There are certain seasons of our lives where we are stressed quite often. We're stressed as parents. We're stressed at work. We're stressed.
Samantha: When we think about our health, we're stressed and just daily overwhelm. And when you think about how sabotage is the root of all of that. That kind of blew my mind and I did a deep dive into what is self sabotage? What are all of the ways that we do this? And I really explored it. And one simple example of this is when your alarm goes off in the morning and you hear that alarm What?
Samantha: What are you laughing at? I'm just, I feel like I know what you're going to say and I think I'd do this. Yeah. Well, I think we all do this. We press snooze. Yes. And a lot of us probably press snooze more than once. That is self sabotage, right? We're sabotaging the fact that we set that alarm intentionally the night before.
Samantha: to get up at that time. We likely had a plan to wake up and to do the thing, right? Whatever it was in the morning. And we willingly, knowingly are like, eh, five more minutes or nine more minutes, whatever it is on your phone. And that's just one teeny tiny example. Okay. So self sabotage is when we actively prevent ourselves from taking action, Which makes us feel bad.
Samantha: Yeah. Okay. So, how does this Hold on. Can you backtrack? Sure. Yes. And not only does it make us feel bad, but it makes you become impatient. It makes you feel more overwhelmed. It makes you more reactive. It triggers all of the things to that, where you come home from the day, or if you stay at home. All of that overwhelm and those challenging feelings that you feel usually links back to the fact that you sabotaged at some point during your day.
Samantha: And it isn't this like big action that you took. It's all started with that one teeny tiny snooze button. And there's so many examples of how we do this throughout our day.
Gretchen: it's so odd thinking of self sabotage because why would we want to do that? Like, we want to feel our best. It's just such a crazy concept that we're the ones getting in our way, you know?
Gretchen: Yeah.
Samantha: And 95 percent of the actions that we do, our behaviors and our thoughts are subconscious. And All of our self sabotage is subconscious as well. So, if you're right now feeling a little bit like you're judging yourself, I hope that you can try and find some compassion, because a lot of this is not something that you are intentionally doing, especially Especially that snooze button example, right?
Samantha: Like, yes, you are intentionally doing that, but it's something in your brain deep down ingrained that is making you half asleep, press that snooze button. So it's not something where you are intentionally procrastinating, intentionally, like not taking an opportunity that comes your way. It's something that we learned at an early age that is keeping us safe.
Gretchen: I feel like some of us listening, like myself, might, you had said at one point how like if we feel stressed throughout the day or overwhelmed, there are lots of people who feel stressed all day long or overwhelmed or anxious all day long. Is that, I know that there's a few different types of saboteurs, which we're going to get into, but Is that just one saboteur?
Gretchen: Or could that be multiple? Like, how does this show up in our daily life?
Samantha: Yeah, and going to your question of stress and overwhelm, that could be linked to a lot of different saboteurs, because there are 10 different saboteurs. So, depending on how you operate throughout your day, and that 95 percent programming that is subconscious, that creates how you feel throughout your day.
Samantha: And so, that Is the end result is your stress and your overwhelm.
[00:08:52] 10 Saboteurs
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Samantha: So out of the 10 saboteurs, we all have all of them. However, there is a quiz that you can take that shows you how they show up for you personally. And it's really interesting if you take it, maybe we could provide the link in the show notes for people.
Samantha: You might feel a little bit attacked or victimized when you read it, at least I did when I first saw them, this quiz puts them in order of how relevant they are for you. But I actually took some notes before this and I have examples of how they might show up for you. So, the first one that I wanted to highlight is the hyperachiever. Now, a lot of these, you might even hear me say that and you instantly know what it is and how it shows up.
Samantha: The hyperachiever, you know, is that person who values doing things. And so an example of how this might show up is you have the goal to better your physical abilities and to work on yourself. So maybe you start a missing link workout, but you set the goal. of exercising every single day, maybe five days a week.
Samantha: Instead of something more manageable, maybe your starting point should really be once a week. But the hyperachiever thinks, Nope, I'm going to jump in five days a week. That is sabotage because you're setting yourself up to fail if you're not the type of person that is at the ability level yet to adequately do five days a week.
Gretchen: So let's pause there. So is that sabotage because that person would likely stop exercising because they think they're not doing enough? Is that why it's sabotage?
Samantha: Yep. and even that might be delayed sabotage because they might work out for the first three days and then on day four they don't have the energy, right?
Samantha: Or something happens on day four where they might have injured their foot or something and they will feel such intense guilt or judgment or any sort of emotion that comes with it. And feel so much worse about not being able to show up on that day four instead of feeling compassion and finding some leeway and maybe pushing that fourth workout to a weekend day or saying it's okay this day this week is three days a week and that's okay and showing some more love towards himself and grace.
Gretchen: Gotcha. Okay. So what's the next one?
Samantha: The next one is avoider. This is more so avoiding conflict, avoiding potential people, perhaps, or situations, thinking that it will Bring a closer connection either with yourself or with other people when in fact it erodes trust because you know you're not dealing with something or the other person.
Samantha: No, it's like the elephant in the room, right? The other person knows that there's Something that's not being said to. So how this might show up in your daily life is avoiding dealing with your MS symptoms that day or in general, or avoiding having a conversation with a family member about how it makes you feel when they talk about your symptoms.
Samantha: Another example is the pleaser. This could be trying a new diet because your friend said you should, or maybe because somebody on a podcast said that you should, but not because you actually want to, and that you think it would be good for you based on your sensitivities and what you know about your body.
Samantha: You're just doing it because somebody else told you to. You're trying to please them. That's sabotage because you're not listening to yourself. And you might even, it might not be good for you. You might have reverse effects on yourself. the next is hypervigilant. And this is overthinking. All the overthinkers.
Samantha: And this actually happened to me last night. So, great example. My son, who again is four, he woke up at three 30 in the morning and I went into his room. I covered him up with his covers. I rubbed his back a little bit and I went back into my bedroom. And for some reason, it took me an hour to fall back asleep.
Samantha: And I was just overthinking about so many different things. And in my head, I'm like, I actively know that I'm doing this. And so I did, uh, what I'm about to share with you after this of how to actually overcome this to once I, once it hit me of like, okay, this is what I'm doing, I knew how to overcome it, but it's the spiraling thoughts.
Samantha: And normally, especially with the overthinker, it comes from a good place. It's having a thought that. It tells you what you need or it tells you about a desire that's important to you. So maybe an example for you is having the thought that you need to make a doctor's appointment, but then the hypervigilant is spiraling, thinking of all of the things that could go wrong at that doctor's appointment, or if you decide to make it, the next one is victim.
Samantha: I call this the one person invite to a pity party. This is sulking in our own circumstances. This, we do this because it protects us. Having a pity party makes us feel so validated. It makes us feel good when we're in the thick of it. It makes us feel safe and it gives us an explanation of who we are. Why what's happening is happening.
Samantha: I've done this plenty of times, being a single mom. So I totally get it, and I think the word victim feels bad to place on ourselves. However, becoming aware that this might be one of your top saboteurs is not a bad thing. It is a really enlightening thing. Just knowing that in reality, placing the victim on ourselves distances ourselves from the solution and from those that we love.
Samantha: So especially overcoming this one, knowing that it will bring us closer to. Other people and to love and to what we actually want
Gretchen: when you first started saying that my first thought was, okay, these are bad things about ourselves.
Gretchen: The, these are the things that prevent us from achieving the things we want to achieve or feeling the way we want to feel. Okay. But from what you just said, they're not bad. It's things we all experience. We just need to know which ones our default is so that we can then overcome them. So we can, and you're going to teach us how to do that.
Gretchen: But is that right? So like, they're not bad. Like they're, it's, all of these are okay. But there's different strategies to pull us out of it. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. That makes me feel better.
Samantha: Yes. I mean, even in my journaling, the goal is never to not feel anxiety ever again. The goal is never to not self sabotage ever again.
Samantha: It's to become aware of how it feels, or when we're doing it, and then My goal for you is to literally snap your fingers and in 10 seconds be able to move through it rather than spiral or sulk and get sucked into it and have it impact your whole day or month or, you know, even slip into a depression because of that.
Gretchen: Gotcha. Okay. Continue.
Samantha: Yep. So the next one is restless. And this is a great example of, of like not being a bad thing. So many people have restless. This is just jumping from one thing to another. It could be jumping from program to program or diet to diet, doctor to doctor, instead of committing to just one thing.
Samantha: Or maybe instead of trusting yourself, you're just always doing something instead of slowing down, trusting yourself, maybe resting. The next is Stickler, which is the perfectionist. And controller. So I'm going to, they're pretty similar. So I'm going to go over these two in the same breath.
Samantha: So these are thinking that you have to do things a certain way or trying to control things like controlling the outcome to get what you want. So how this might show up for you is, Doing things a certain way or trying to control things so that maybe your MS doesn't progress in the way that you think that it might.
Samantha: For example, maybe exercising only in the morning, or eating a certain food for lunch every day, or even using a certain face wash before bed that has lavender in it. You become so rigid. in these things that you miss out on the present moment and joy. The second to last is hyper rational. This is when you don't listen to how your body or mind feels each day, and you are thinking too rationally, too logically, which may look like doing something because you think that you should, not because you actually have the energy to do it.
Samantha: And lastly, This actually won't even be rated on your quiz if you decide to take it because it is all of our number one. The judge is simply how we judge ourselves and how we judge others. And this is just how we judge ourselves on a daily basis. How we, how we look, how we feel, how our pants fit that day, everything.
Samantha: And even with others, it's like when we are looking at somebody else, walk down the street, especially. their abilities compared to our abilities, right? And so this shows up so often and it's so strong that it's everybody's number one. And it also shows up with the other saboteurs I just mentioned.
Samantha: Typically, once you start becoming aware of, you know, the stickler or the pleaser, the avoider, whatever yours are, Awareness is key. That's the first step. But what I'm finding with a lot of my clients is immediately after the awareness, they're judging their awareness, which Doesn't defeat the whole purpose, but it's the next step that we work on together.
Samantha: And so catching that judge and showing yourself some compassion towards that.
Gretchen: Okay. So that's insane that the judge is the first for everyone. Wow. Okay. So the first step is knowing which are your top saboteurs. And as you were saying, some of those, some of them immediately, I was like, yes, that's me.
Gretchen: Others. I was like, I don't know. So once you determine them. Does each saboteur have a different way to snap yourself out of it? Or is it generally the same, but fine tuned? Tell us more about how we get out of it.
Samantha: Yeah, yeah, great question. So there are four steps to getting out of it. The first one I've kind of hinted towards and it's showing yourself compassion Towards the whole thing.
Samantha: Towards what you're experiencing. Towards the thoughts that you're having. Towards the awareness piece. But also, more specifically, towards the initial thought. I used the example earlier of the over thinker. And the initial desire was to make the doctor's appointment. And that was the desire that, that was a positive thought.
Samantha: That you just ended up spiraling into something positive. More negative or challenging, so showing compassion for that initial thought of making the doctor's appointment because that was important to you going back to the snoozing example, there's a lot of judgment there for a lot of people. I know that for me, there was even is still sometimes.
Samantha: And so showing compassion for the fact that I chose to set the alarm for that time. I didn't actually wake up at that time today, but I am showing compassion for myself that I wanted to, and that maybe tomorrow I will, but not judging myself for not Getting up at that time today. The second step is journaling through any lingering emotions because let's face it, there are lingering emotions, right?
Samantha: When you make that doctor's appointment, there might be a lingering emotion. When I pressed snooze, there still might be a lingering emotion. And so I like to use the breakthrough blueprint for this and episode 107 of the missing link will help you through this. So I won't. Go into all of that, but that will help you process lingering emotions and help you work through it, not just, you know, name the feeling and then hope that it dissolves and goes away.
Samantha: Step three, and this is a big one, is what I call the 10 second present moment focus. This truly will take 10 seconds. What it is, is really focusing on the present moment and you can use your senses for this. So what I mean by this is, think about your senses. I love the touch sense. So, because it's just so accessible.
Samantha: You can take anything that is on your desk or on your couch or wherever you are and really feel it. Even if you have a solid wood desk in front of you, really feel how smooth it is and then rub your hand. Over the edge of it and feel where the edge is. And if you can feel maybe if there's any rigidity there where the corner is, where it all meets and for 10 seconds become so aware.
Samantha: If you have nothing around you, an example is rubbing your thumb and your pointer finger together so closely and even closing your eyes if you need to, to feel your fingerprint. Can you feel those fine lines? And just taking deep breaths throughout for 10 seconds. being so aware of what you're feeling.
Samantha: And you can do this with hearing. With that, I simply like to take some deep breaths and actually try to hear myself. you could do it with seeing, you could really look at something, and then you could try and have a soft gaze at something. There's so many different ways.
Samantha: So I, those are a few very tangible things for 10 seconds.
Samantha: And then, like you just alluded to, Dr. Gretchen, there are so many. saboteur disruptors. So based on your, whichever one you're experiencing, there are specific ways that you can overcome those as well.
Gretchen: So I think hyperachiever has got to be one of mine because as you were explaining those and the one where you said to focus on your fingerprints, my first thought was, what's the right answer?
Gretchen: Am I supposed to be able to feel my fingerprints? So I don't think that was the point of that. Um, Little task, but
Samantha: well, a sneak peek because I can't, we don't have enough time to go into all of them. But the hyperachiever, one of the disruptors is to enjoy the journey and remove yourself from the outcome.
Samantha: And so for that, there, as you know, there is no right answer for this. And so it's just enjoying the process of. Whatever happens, happens. Do you even have fingerprints on, you know, that you can feel? Maybe not. Maybe feel a different fingerprint, or maybe rub the hand, like both hands together. So just enjoying like the actual process of something.
Gretchen: So
Gretchen: as you mentioned, there's not enough time in the day to do all of the seven tours all at once, but you did mention the judge is the one that we all have. So can you share? How we can get out, like, once we are aware of,
[00:24:16] How do we pull ourselves out of the judge
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Gretchen: Oh, this is the judge in me that is causing this to happen. How do we pull ourselves out of that one?
Samantha: Yeah. So that one goes back to the compassion. would do the 10 second present moment focus in whichever way feels accessible to you. And then I would come up with a mantra for yourself of whatever. feels right for you that reminds you to show love for yourself that takes you out of the judgy headspace whether you're judging somebody else or judging yourself and I help my clients through this in the self sabotage detox where we go through individually like what is your typical judgy self saying what are those typical situations and we come up for a mantra and also what's helpful is like putting your hand over your heart.
Samantha: And because even if you don't say your mantra, when the judge hits, you can do that little 10 second repetition and then put your hand over your heart. Or maybe it's, it's a different, gesture that gets you back in the head space of, okay, like you're back in your own body.
Gretchen: Okay, so that's good to know. What about, I want to do one more that I feel like my audience might really resonate with.
[00:25:29] Coming out of the avoider saboteur
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Gretchen: So what about the avoider? If we realize, if we realize we are avoiding, Something and that's self sabotaging us. What are ways we can come out of that one? Yeah. Avoider is my number two. So if you are an avoider, I am with you. This shows up for me just, I mean, on a sometimes daily basis where I just, you know, get tired or I don't want to do something and I just stay in bed longer.
Gretchen: Or I.
Samantha: Yeah. Just don't want to show up for work or I take a nap or, you know, so many different ways. I also don't want to have certain conversations with people. And I know I remind myself of the end goal. So that's the first thing is reminding yourself of why you want to do what you want to do. Why a shower will actually feel good today.
Samantha: Why having a conversation will actually make your relationship stronger than avoiding the conversation. And then it's taking one teeny tiny step towards. What it is that you want. This is actually the last step of the breakthrough blueprint. So if you have no idea what the action is that you want to do again, it would be a great to go through the breakthrough blueprint.
Samantha: But with each of these disruptors, there are some key things that you can do. Should or should not do for the avoider again The disruptor is to take that one tiny action and it's key to do two things one to not do it all Because when you are like, oh wait, actually I am motivated to do it all cuz I've heard that before like just go to the gym For five minutes and then you're gonna get motive motivation to stay the whole time What that's doing is telling your brain that you should stay the whole time.
Samantha: So do the small activity and then stop. And then secondly, celebrate it. It's so important with all of them, but especially the avoider to celebrate what you do in fact, accomplish so that you're again, teaching your brain. A lot of this goes back to neuroplasticity. You're teaching your brain what to do and what to be proud of so that you.
Samantha: Are not going to sabotage for as long next time
Gretchen: that reminds me the last Ms conference. I was at there. They shared research showing that having that celebrating and having a motivation and reward was a key strategy to reduce Ms related fatigue. Oh, wow. Yeah. So that's cool. Okay. So I'm going to ask you a question later if people do want to work with you and figure out more of the saboteurs, but for time's sake, it boils down to four things for all of them, regardless of what your main saboteurs are.
Gretchen: So that was showing yourself compassion. Was that the first one? So showing yourself compassion first, then journaling it out. Ideally, with a strategy. And again, what was that episode, 107? So Samantha was on my podcast before and she details exactly how to do this journaling. So look at podcast 107 if you're interested in that.
Gretchen: So number one is compassion. Number two is journaling. Number three, focus on the present moment. And what was number four? The sabotage specific disruptor. Gotcha. Okay. So we, we can do that. We can do those four things regardless, but just for, for moving on those things sound really simple.
[00:28:53] If these are so simple, why is it so hard to do?
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Gretchen: Why is it so hard to do?
Samantha: Yeah. So part of it is that phrase of like, it's so easy to do that. It's easy not to do right. It's, it slips our mind. We almost think it's so easy that I'm just as good without it. But the real answer is that. We form these patterns because what these are, you know, the pleaser, the avoider, the hyperachiever are actual patterns neurologically in our brain that are solidified in our brains by the time we are between five and seven years old, and they are it.
Samantha: Created to keep us safe when we are young and they're created just no matter what kind of childhood you have, you could have, you know, of not so great childhood or the best childhood with the best experiences. And you go to Disney every single weekend. No matter what, we all have these patterns and we all have these experiences and.
Samantha: they all form at such a young age. What happens though, you know, if you think of when you're a baby, Nora right now has three teeth, right? And when she was born, there was no teeth. Our bodies physically change and adapt to process new things so that eventually she will be able to chew food with teeth and initially she can only have milk.
Samantha: Her digestive system can only process milk right now and then she will be able to have, you know, puffs and then she can actually have a steak someday. I share those examples because we as kids form these patterns, but nobody teaches us. to break these and unless we're intentional about it, there's no way to overcome these unless we are aware of them and we can finally break free from them.
Samantha: And that's why it's so hard is because people, we, we think that this is who we are so often, especially Well, I say, especially, but maybe because this is my number one, I'm a people pleaser. That's my top one. And I say, I'm a people pleaser, right? Or people say I'm a recovering people pleaser as if it's our identity, right?
Samantha: Or I'm a hyperachiever. I'm a perfectionist because it's so ingrained. And again, it's nothing against us. It's not a bad thing. It's, it happened to protect ourselves. And one example. To showcase my pleaser and avoider, my top one and two is from my childhood featuring my twin sister. So we also have an older sister, and I once asked my mom just about Me as a
[00:31:31]
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Samantha: little kid and she would tell me how this was before I was seven I was probably five or six and she would tell me about how my sisters and I would line up the three of us between our living room and our den area and we would be doing cartwheels from one room into the other and it would be like my older sister me and then Gretchen and it would just be the three of us and how I My sisters would always budge in front of me and I would just remove myself from the line and I just would not go and do cartwheels until my mom would come and say, okay, girls, it's, it's Samantha's turn.
Samantha: And she would like put me back in the line. And this was just with my sisters. This wasn't even in like, you know, public or anything. And I remember being at birthday parties and, you know, as a kid, everyone wants their present to be opened first. And I remember my present was always open last because I wasn't.
Samantha: Ever the one that was like, Ooh, pick me, pick me. And I remember parents telling my mom that when at pickup, they're like, Oh my gosh, she's so great. She was so patient. She was so calm. And I just learned that to be safe as a young kid, to avoid conflict. I needed to not speak up. I needed to let others go first, and there's nothing right or wrong about that.
Samantha: That was just how I created safety for myself. So that's why it's so hard. There's, it needs to be intentional, and it's so deeply ingrained in us. Yeah, and hearing positive remarks like that, like, Oh, she's so gracious. That just reinforces the thing, the self sabotager. Yeah. Yeah. Self saboteur. Is that the right word?
Samantha: Yeah. The ways that we self sabotage or you're saboteur. When you prioritize this, the benefits are crazy. I have some stats here. So, here are some stats about how people who have, um, Sabotage less, respond.
Samantha: Sales people who sabotage less sell 37 percent more. Workers take fewer sick days, are less likely to become burnt out or sick. Doctors make more accurate diagnosis faster. Yeah, project teams perform 31 percent better when other factors are held equal and then health related that people have enhanced immunity, they've lowered their stress related hormones, lowered blood pressure, they have less pain, fewer colds, better sleep, and a group of nuns showed that When they sabotaged less, they lived nearly 10 years longer than other nuns in the same exact test group.
Gretchen: That is insane. Like, those are real health improvements just from mindset stuff. Like, not letting ourselves, or not not letting ourselves, but catching ourselves when we're self sabotaging. That is crazy. Yeah, it's awesome. Wow. I feel like I just need to take a second to let that sink in. So one question I feel like a lot of our listeners are probably wondering right now is
[00:34:38] How does Samantha help people
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Gretchen: how do you help people?
Gretchen: How can people work with you? How can they figure out all these other ways to disrupt their saboteurs?
Samantha: Yeah. So I have a group called the self sabotage detox. I only host it a couple of times a year and the next round starts in March. And that's where we get into the, it's a deep dive of you personally and your experiences.
Samantha: We learn how to disrupt all of this in real time. So if you're interested in that, I will share the link with you and you can share that with everybody. But I also share a lot of this on my podcast called journal entries, and I talk about it on my Instagram as well. It's Samantha dot S dot says. Awesome.
Gretchen: So we'll put that, your podcast, your Instagram, the link to learn more about your group coaching, all in the show notes if anyone is wondering.
Samantha: Sounds good.
[00:35:26] Questions about being twins
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Gretchen: But before we log off for the day, we did get some questions submitted about being twins. So let's dive into those.
[00:35:34] How do people tell you apart?
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Gretchen: So, the first question was, how do people tell you apart? What's the thing that's different? What would you say for that? our noses are different. Yes. I feel like our face shape is different. We're probably not Our hair color. Yeah, we're probably not the best people to answer this, cause We feel like a lot of ourselves are different.
Gretchen: Yeah, so people, people think we're identical. And actually, I think one of the questions was, are you identical? So they think we look identical. We are not identical. We are fraternal. But yeah, at this time, our hair color is different. is more brunette. Mine is more blonde. Our noses are a little bit different.
Gretchen: I feel like we maybe have different smiles. Do we have different eyes?
Samantha: I think we have the same eyes and same eyebrows. I will say, when people meet one of us first, for a long duration of time, it's easier to tell us apart. Like, when they then meet, when they're introduced to the twin, they're like, oh, yeah, you guys look alike.
Samantha: We, our older sister also looks like us. We've been called triplets before. Yeah. Okay. I don't know if that was too helpful, but. That was fun. Okay. Next question is, which one is Dr. Gretchen? You are both identical. Okay. Next one is what are your top three saboteurs? I wonder if they are the same. So I did see this question before we started this podcast and I actually realized I don't know what my top three saboteurs are.
Samantha: So I took the quiz. and we'll put the link for that in the show notes, but before I share mine, what are your top three saboteurs, Samantha?
Samantha: Mine are pleaser, avoider, and hyperachiever, and I just totally assumed you were going to be the same, but you definitely are not. I don't think any of ours. are the same for the top three. I should say too. I really didn't agree with mine at first, so I took it a second time, which I guess plays into the hyperachiever because at first my hyperachiever was two.
Samantha: It was pleaser, hyperachiever, avoider. And the second time it was still the same three. It was just reordered. I'm like, all right, well, I guess those are mine. I feel like that says a lot about your personality. Yeah. Taking it twice. Okay. Mine were, my number one was restless. And she got a 10, you guys. And it's 10 out of 10.
Samantha: Yeah. Or 0 to 10, right? Yeah. I've never seen 10 with my clients. What does that mean? How do you analyze that? You're just super restless. Yeah. We can work on that. Yeah, I would like to. So number one was restless, number two is hypervigilant, and three was hyperachiever. So you had hyperachiever. Mm hmm. So one of them are the same.
Samantha: Yeah. Wow. And you had avoider? Yeah, that was one of my lowest ones. Yeah, it is cool seeing In a structured order of what these are because I do feel like it makes that first step of awareness Easier. Yeah, because when I'm being restless I can acknowledge Oh, I'm just being restless. This is me self sabotaging, self sabotaging myself.
Samantha: Let me show compassion for myself. Do this 10 second trick and go through those things that you were telling us. Yeah. You'll get so much insight just from read, from taking the quiz and reading about it. The self sabotage detox will make it more personal and like you'll actually learn to disrupt it. But it's so interesting reading the quiz results.
Samantha: Okay, so the next and, did you get any questions on your, how did you choose your different career paths? Okay, so the next question is, what do you think parents of teenage twins should be mindful of? This is so interesting because this isn't from a, well, it's from a twin perspective. Okay. my boys turned 16 next week and this came from Amy.
Samantha: What do you think parents should be mindful of? should be mindful of, specifically teenage twins. Do you want to go first? I think that parents of 16 year old twins, so that's like the age where, depending on the route that they're going to go, we were at least like looking at colleges, I think around that time, maybe that's 17.
Samantha: I would say, let them, I don't know if let them, but um, acknowledge? Yeah, acknowledge that they might want to differentiate themselves, that they might want different things. That was the time that I, I ended up going to the same college as Gretchen. Which I would not change for the world. That was like the best experience ever, but I remember feeling so pulled towards creating my own identity and staying with my twin, right?
Samantha: Like as a twin, you have such a close bond and 16. I feel like that's such an, the age where you're like, I don't know. You kind of want to see who you are separately. So anything that you can do to foster that as a parent. That's a really good one. It's funny because. I don't think I remember feeling that way.
Samantha: Yeah. I don't remember you feeling that way, but maybe it's cause you're more of a people pleaser that maybe I chose the school that I wanted to go to and your saboteur chimed in and was like, okay, go to the same school. Um, okay. That's really good. Mine is. Similar. but different. So what I would say is, and this, this actually is probably for guidance for before the age of 16, but just throughout their lives as well to differentiate them.
Samantha: I remember something that we experienced, and this is probably normal. Our older sister, and sometimes our parents, but our older sister, always referred to us as twins. Like, hey twins, come here twins. I don't know. And for me, I hated that because I wanted to be acknowledged as my own person, which is this kind of the same as what you're saying, differentiating, which is so funny because we had the best experience as twins.
Samantha: So it's funny that that's both of our answers. I know that we like wanted to be separate. Yeah. We were best friends. We loved being twins. Yeah. I guess it just goes to show two things can be true at once, which I feel like is your mantra. I love that. Yeah.
Gretchen: Okay. And then the final question was, how did you two choose your different career paths, which is very interesting because we're kind of in a similar career path right now, but it wasn't always that way. Yeah, I'll, I'll go first. And I actually have a podcast episode on this. It's one of the first five, maybe even the first podcast episode.
Gretchen: I always knew I was into science. And so when I went to college, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but science is what I was most interested in. So I majored in biology and I went to an event where biology majors shared what they were doing with their degree. And one of those people said that they were a physical therapist.
Gretchen: And I had an immediate gut instinct of that's what I need to do. That's what I want to do. And so right from grad school, I literally two weeks, if that, It might have only been one week after graduating. I started graduate school, became a physical therapist. My first job, I got the opportunity to start working with people with MS.
Gretchen: And that kind of started me with where I am now. But it's interesting because so many of my patients initially would say, Oh, what does your twin sister do? And I would say, you know, Oh, she's a business major. Um, And they would immediately be like, Oh, so you went very different paths, but now that's not true.
Gretchen: Share a bit about you. Yeah. So I went to college and got my MBA and I worked at General Electric for five years and that fifth year, maybe the fourth year I started in network marketing and I was a health coach and I ended up doing really well with that and I really enjoyed that. And so I left the corporate world and pursued health coaching.
Gretchen: And I did that for 11 years, but then the past two years, I started struggling myself emotionally and mentally. And like I shared in the very beginning of this podcast, that was when I started to journal and I felt this really big tug to kind of help people. Not just, you know, get physically fit, but emotionally fit and mentally fit and really honor that side because I hadn't seen anybody help with that sort of stuff that beyond just therapists.
Gretchen: So, yeah, and that, that, that's how I ended up where I am today. Is there
Gretchen: well, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for coming on my podcast. And not only that, but doing it live in the same room.
Gretchen: Yeah, this was super fun. Thank you for having me. It was fun. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise. And again, I'll put all those links down below. for you guys to learn more about this and connect with Samantha in this show notes. And I also have a feeling we're going to get lots of missing link members requesting that you come back as a guest speaker to answer individual questions, maybe do a coaching session.
Gretchen: So we might be seeing you inside the program in the near future as well. I would love that.
Mhm. Mhm.
